[00:00:00] Mel: Cast your mind back a few years, and some of you may remember the term vacu was doing the rounds. Vacu, V A C U, stands for volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity. Essentially, it was a trendy management term for the fact that the world we live in is... all a bit nuts and nebulous. Even though time has passed since that term became popular, what it represents hasn't changed.

[00:00:27] Mel: We live in a world where change is just the way things work. The pace of technology, change has never been as fast. The skills we need are changing, and there's a whole lot of crazy stuff going on around the world that's impacting our professional lives as communicators. So, as we look from now to the next few years, what are the skills communicators need to develop and what are the unique challenges and opportunities we need to be aware of?

[00:00:54] Mel: It's a question that I discussed with great enthusiasm with today's podcast guest, [00:01:00] Ross Monaghan, a strategic communications lecturer at Deakin University in Melbourne and the chair of the IABC Asia Pacific region. Ross began writing for his local newspaper while still in high school, and after a brief stint as a journalist, he completed his first degree and started working for BHP upon graduation.

[00:01:20] Mel: He also served as Optus' Community Relations Manager, where he helped establish the Mobile Carriers Forum to address community concerns about mobile phone deployment. Ross was later appointed Chief Executive Officer of the Australian Mobile Telecommunications Association, representing Australia's mobile phone industry during the introduction of internet enabled mobile phones.

[00:01:42] Mel: As an academic, Ross has won a national teaching award and has chaired or spoken at more than 50 events. 50 conferences throughout the Asia Pacific region. He has addressed classes around the globe and delivered in person presentations at institutions ranging from Hanoi University of Economics [00:02:00] to Harvard University in Boston, USA.

[00:02:03] Mel: In this episode, we covered everything from what critical skills we need to be developing, what's not changing with our profession and the key trends Ross is seeing in his role at the university and as a leader in the Asia Pacific comms scene. So without further ado, here's Ross.

[00:02:23] Mel: Well, hello, Ross. Welcome to the show.

[00:02:25] Ross: It's great to be here, Mel.

[00:02:27] Mel: Thank you so much for taking the time out from your very busy schedule to chat to us on Less Chatter, More Matter. So before we get into the guts of today's episode, can you tell us a little bit about you? What do you do? How did you come to develop your expertise in this space?

[00:02:44] Ross: Yeah, well, so I'm currently a lecturer at Deakin University. Um, I've only been doing that about 20 years, so I'm kind of a new academic. Um, before that, I was the CEO of the Mobile Phone Industry Association in [00:03:00] Australia. Um, and You know, look, I got to see a lot of new technology there.

[00:03:06] Ross: I was mentoring other people within my network. Um, and look, you know, I'd always had this inkling that I wanted to teach. So I made the break. And before that, I was at Optus. I was their community, national community relations manager, dealing with a whole range of fun issues, including mobile phone health issues and mobile phone tower deployment.

[00:03:27] Ross: And I'm sure, you know, Many of your viewers will remember the angst Australia went, well, and the world went through about 20, 25 years ago when lots of mobile phone towers were going up and, and before that I was at BHP for about nine years around Australia, around the world, and before that I was a journalist.

[00:03:44] Ross: So I started off in media and comms when I was at high school and, um, weirdly my very first interview was when I was at high school in, I think it was year 11 and I went to be a journalist. And, um, so I thought, Hmm, who should I interview? [00:04:00] I know John Howard. He seems like a good person. So I called Canberra and he was coming to Warrnambool, which is where I lived.

[00:04:07] Ross: And, um, so I scooped the local newspaper, got an interview with, uh, John Howard, who was very generous with his time.

[00:04:14] Mel: The former prime minister himself. Well done. So how did you go from, and you know, your story is indicative of a lot of, you know, ex-journos, right? Start off in media, end up in the corporate world. How did you make that transition?

[00:04:28] Ross: Well, look, interestingly, when I left high school, um, and became a journalist, I was already aware of public relations or what I would now call professional communication because, and I didn't explain, but one of the reasons I wanted to be a journalist was because I was on the junior council in Warrnambool and, um, the mayor at the time, Tony McCormack, was setting up the PR University, um, and it, Look, as it turned out, I made eye contact in my very first meeting with Tony, just as she was saying, [00:05:00] who is going to be our PR person, um, and sort of that's where it all kind of happened, and I got an understanding of The media and how it was important for organisations or groups like the Junior Council to get their message out there.

[00:05:17] Ross: But at the time I was also interested in graphic design. Um, and I was always, you know, a bit of a geek with a camera and a video recorder. You know, look, all of those skills came together in, in what is now my role as a professional communicator, communication educator, where we have to understand multimedia. Desktop publishing came in, um, when I was at BHP and I demonstrated and, and got involved in that within BHP and that was highly regarded within the company. So they gave me some great, um, professional development experiences, including sending me to, um, uh, [00:06:00] to North America to do pretty much whatever I wanted for three or four months, which is just blows people's minds.

[00:06:06] Ross: And it kind of blows my mind thinking back to it. But, um, incidentally, that's a quick way that, that, I learned that networking is so important. Professional development and professional associations are also really, really important. But also, I think, to be on the cusp of new technology and learn it and experiment with it.

[00:06:28] Ross: Because if you're that kind of person, then you are highly regarded. Because you can do what you need to do better. You can do it more efficiently. And What organisation doesn't want that?

[00:06:42] Mel: And certainly I felt that myself in one of my first grown up jobs. I suppose I'd call it, uh, got sent off to do a graphic design course, you know, using Adobe InDesign, uh, because I was the comms person, the marketing person, the graphic designer, the, the all things.

[00:06:59] Mel: Uh, [00:07:00] but certainly having that extra skill at that time, that was a skill that people wanted in addition to being able to write. And that really helped me. Get other jobs to be able to do some freelance stuff on the side, like, because you could do a bunch of different things. And even now I find I'm like, I've just been working on a massive design project in Canva now instead.

[00:07:18] Mel: So it's like those skills just keep coming back at some point, but that actually brings us to my next question. So let's talk about the comms profession. What are some of the biggest shifts that you've had in yourself over your years of experience?

[00:07:34] Ross: I mean, when I, um, started in the newsroom, I was, I was using a manual typewriter with carbon paper and copy paper. When we marked up photographs, we use China graph pencils and probably about 80 percent of your viewers now are going, what is he talking about?

[00:07:51] Mel: What is this technology?

[00:07:56] Ross: Yes. Yeah. Um, so, so I saw those sort of [00:08:00] changes, um, uh, throughout my career, but I've always been interested in that, that technology, so, we, you know, we started... using electronic communication in the newsroom, and I got to play with one of the first laptops that we have, although I use the term laptop very, very loosely. Um, and I could start to, I could see the changes that were coming, that as we've already kind of discussed, that professional communicators were not just going to be word people.

[00:08:37] Ross: Um, To communicate, we needed an understanding of graphic design, we needed an understanding of how, uh, photography, how we could communicate across different platforms or different tactics. Um, so those things have been continually changing. Um, you know, the bottom line of what we do, you know, the transfer of [00:09:00] meaning and helping organisations achieve their goals and objectives hasn't changed.

[00:09:06] Ross: But the tactics and the tools have changed and of course organisations have changed but of course, you know, society has changed significantly as well. I mean, there are more options for where you can get your media. There are more ways that you can communicate and connect with people, whether it's down the street or around the world.

[00:09:27] Ross: So these changes in society have had a big impact for us. Changes in technology have had a big impact. But, you know, I like to tell my students that the bottom line of what we do, that transfer of meaning. And helping organisations as professional communicators, helping them achieve their goals and objectives hasn't changed.

[00:09:49] Mel: Yeah, that's very true. And, you know, some of the changes that I think about just you know, social media for me was the big ... shift. Uh, that was really what changed a lot of what we [00:10:00] did every day.

[00:10:01] Mel: Uh, it went from, you know, your standard media release and, you know, and maybe an intranet article, if you're lucky enough to have an intranet, probably an email. That was about it. And then all of a sudden we had citizen journalists. We had multiple platforms that we were engaging with and we were engaging very differently with people too.

[00:10:19] Mel: It was much more two way. Then that kind of broadcast, uh, way of communicating, would you say?

[00:10:28] Ross: Yeah, look, even before that, I think there were, um, platforms that allowed us a bit of a taste of social media. I remember, um, one of my IABC, um, colleagues in, uh, New South Wales, Merrill David, who was highly influential in my career.

[00:10:47] Ross: Um, she and I established an online, um, Meeting for IRBC, probably back in the mid nineties. I think it was MSN message [00:11:00] message. Or maybe even ICQ. Oh, I remember that.

[00:11:05] Mel: I still remember that noise from the ICQ messenger popping off.

[00:11:08] Ross: Yeah. Um, so, you know, we, we got a bit of a taste for it back, back then. And of course, uh, being in the mobile phone industry and talking about the introduction of the mobile internet sort of gave me a lot of insight into the changes.

[00:11:25] Ross: And I was privy to a lot of, you know, behind the scenes type things.

[00:11:30] Mel: That's really cool. It's, it's funny. don't reflect enough, I think, on where we've come from and how much things have changed, but also how things have changed so quickly too.

[00:11:40] Mel: And that pace just keeps continuing, which brings me to my next question. So your role as IABC chair for the APAC region, Asia Pacific, which for those listeners who don't know, you get an insight into what's happening around our region. What are some of the current trends or challenges that you're seeing in the region that [00:12:00] we as communicators need to respond to?

[00:12:02] Ross: Yeah, look, um, of course, the cost of living, um, and the pressure that's been put on organisations, both commercial and government, I mean, of course, that's having an impact. I know that, unfortunately, there are quite a few people who have, um, uh, had to leave their organisations because of that. That's certainly an issue, I think.

[00:12:22] Ross: Um, but also, you know, we can't ignore Generative AI as well. And, you know, wherever you go, whenever you talk to a new communicator, I mean, that topic always comes up. It's a big issue, of course, in education for me. Working with students and getting them to understand how they can use AI, um, to, uh, to further their studies and further their knowledge rather than just circumventing the assessment process.

[00:12:56] Ross: But, um, you know, I, you know, I think [00:13:00] organisations are, are, are under a lot of pressure because of those financial issues from, from, um, their shareholders and governments are wanting to save money. So there's a lot of pressure on us as communication professionals to use products and services that are going to save us money.

[00:13:16] Ross: And AI is certainly one of those. Um, and it's evolving pretty quickly. But. On the other hand, we've already talked about social media as an issues manager. It's funny because I, I see a lot of the issues with AI as being almost like deja vu because some of the issues that we, we came across with the introduction of social media.

[00:13:44] Ross: Um, are being replicated with AI as well. Because whilst a lot of communicators are worried about AI taking their jobs, what most thoughtful people are saying now it's not AI that's going to take jobs. It's going to be people who know [00:14:00] how to use AI that take the job. So again, look, you know, organisations are changing and I think professional, professionally as in individuals, we need to do that as well. So I'd urge anyone who's listening to start devoting a little bit of time to using this, the new technology and learning how you can use it to do your work better.

[00:14:22] Mel: Hmm. I think that's a great point because I was actually just having this discussion earlier with somebody today. And to me, uh, yeah, AI is, again, it's a tool that's new, like social media was, like text messages were, like whatever, you know, the internet was new once too. And we're often fearful of things we just don't understand.

[00:14:41] Mel: And with AI, look, that is taking technology to another level. It will never be this dumb again. It's only getting faster. Uh, but By that same token, for me, I found ways to use it to enhance what I do, to make things easier, to do things faster. But it doesn't take away from [00:15:00] empathy. It doesn't take away from human connection.

[00:15:01] Mel: It can never replace those things. And strategic thinking, you know, it doesn't, can't replace that at all. And I remember you saying, uh, it was last year's IABC Fusion Conference in Bali. that communicators are actually best placed to lead the adoption of AI in organisations. Can you talk a bit more about your thoughts on that?

[00:15:23] Ross: Yeah, absolutely. Um, but before I do, you're absolutely right. I think the heart and soul of communication is still with us as individuals. And look, I have this discussion, I'm in a trial in, in Deakin University looking at Copilot um, and I've been appalled by the way that it, wants to rewrite my emails, and it changes the meaning, and mostly it gets the grammar correct, but, you know, I'm not sure it's doing it.

[00:15:54] Mel: You can tell it's been written by a bot, right? Like, it has a tone to it.

[00:15:59] Ross: And [00:16:00] as you know, so as an academic, when a student stands in an assignment that's been written by AI, you know, they're kind of surprised when I write back and say, this has been written by AI. And they say, how do you know? Just, you know, one of the things that that makes me smile is some students complain about that, and they use AI to write their complaining email, but they didn't write it in AI. So, um, you know, I stamp that out pretty quickly, but just saying I'm not impressed by this long email. It's been written by AI. Um, but look, you know, I think communicators are well placed because when, uh, organisations are looking at at AI issues, we're looking at the. Of course, we're looking at the productivity and efficiency issues.

[00:16:45] Ross: That's of course, a big issue for lots of organisations, but also there are things like privacy, um, regulatory issues, legal issues, reputation issues. And this is one I don't think is really... [00:17:00] really started to play out yet. It has in a minor way, but all of these other issues like, you know, employee communication, who's best to look and manage all of these issues.

[00:17:13] Ross: I think comms people are the people to do that because, you know, in my lectures, I would say we're boundary spanners both within the organisation and with the regulators, with our investors, with the communities, with employees, with, um, you know, whole range. So who best to start the conversations within organisations now?

[00:17:39] Ross: It's not up to us to lead all of these different areas, of course. We need to understand the impacts of generative AI and how our organisation's reputation could be impacted. So getting internal stakeholders together to discuss the issues, discuss the way [00:18:00] forward and find the appropriate legal, ethical, regulatory, privacy, um, ways forward, as well as discussing those issues with our external stakeholders. It, it just. To, to me, it's obvious that professional communicators are the ones that should be leading the way.

[00:18:18] Mel: I think that's, and I'm right on that same path with you. I think reputation management is the thing that wraps around all of it. It wraps around the IT implementation, the cybersecurity, the organisational risk, like all those things, the people, the change, all that sort of stuff.

[00:18:35] Mel: And I think organisations also need to understand that reputation starts from within. So if you have. A great internal experience that will show externally. And again, comms... goes across all of those internal external audiences too. So I really love that. We've spoken a bit about a couple of the issues in the region or trends as well.

[00:18:57] Mel: So, you know, obviously we've got this cost of living pressures. [00:19:00] There's also, you know, um, conflict in a lot of places in this region. We're also seeing the impacts of climate change, uh, technology adoption, with that comes, of course, uh, there's high rates of scams and and all those sorts of things as well.

[00:19:16] Mel: How well equipped do you think we are for as Communicators professional communicators to respond to those changes. What do we need to do differently perhaps?

[00:19:26] Ross: Really good question and and to me that question... talks to the value and the role of professional communicators within organisations and societies. And we don't often start these conversations or acknowledge the important role that we play within our organisations and society, because you're right - so much of it involves communication. It involves organisations or government communication.

[00:19:54] Ross: So we need to be there, and I think, communicators need to be much more [00:20:00] confident and forceful, um, in organisations to let leaders know, let the community know, that the work that we do is is thoughtful. It's there to, uh, to listen to key stakeholders, to negotiate, to find appropriate ways forward. Um, so, you know, look, I think we're really, really well placed.

[00:20:25] Ross: So I think for communicators listening to this, I understand that you do a really important role. I think it's easy to understand that if you're working for somebody, uh, you know, in emergency management or fire and rescue or cancer council saving, um, and encouraging people to, you know, not do things that are going to give them cancer, uh, but the role that we play within other or commercial organisations and government organisations as well.

[00:20:55] Ross: To make them efficient, to make them, uh, sustainable, to [00:21:00] help them, uh, address the environmental issues. You know, things like ESG or CSR, um, issues, corporate social responsibility. Um, a lot of those issues were, were, were driven by communicators back, you know, when all of this started.

[00:21:17] Ross: So, you know. Get out there, listen to key stakeholders, network, talk with other people, share experiences with other communicators throughout the region, um, to learn the latest trends, learn how others are dealing with issues really well, learn how others have made mistakes. Um, and if we do those sort of things, you know, we will advance both the profession and our organisations and society more broadly.

[00:21:47] Mel: So, this brings me to my final question, well final I say now, I might get an idea and ask again, but in your work as a teacher, as a academic, you engage [00:22:00] predominantly with young people, um, who are new to, or people who are new to the profession. What do you think are the most critical skills they need to learn and why?

[00:22:09] Ross: Yeah, a great question, um, and skills are important, um, But, uh, you know, I, I'm gonna go above, beyond, beyond that question and say that the most important thing is attitude. Mm. Because I Is what we do a profession or is it a lifestyle?

[00:22:29] Mel: Right now it's a lifestyle. .

[00:22:32] Ross: Yeah. Look, because it is, I mean, we are not a nine to five type of profession.

[00:22:37] Mel: No.

[00:22:38] Ross: But look, you know, it, it, it is a, more of a lifestyle than a profession because, um, understanding the zeitgeist and understanding, um, you know, what governments, what your people are thinking, understand sentiment is really, really important.

[00:22:55] Ross: That's certainly part of the job. So you can't just do that nine to five. It's [00:23:00] about what you do outside of the workplace. Um, and there are times when our jobs, uh, are really intense.

[00:23:08] Ross: So you can't do that sort of work... if it, if you just want a nine to five job, and while some are dismayed, others just brighten up and just go out there and do amazing things. Which is great because employers nowadays are saying for graduates that they employ for attitude and train for skill. Which is really important.

[00:23:30] Ross: So understanding that... some of the skills that we teach at university like writing, which is really still important and understanding how to do that. Many of the other skills are going to be the responsibility of those students or those unemployed professional communicators, which I jokingly describe them as sometimes just to get them into the mindset that they are communicators and not just working for somebody at the moment.

[00:23:59] Ross: [00:24:00] Keeping developing their skills is really important. Um, but also knowledge is important as well. So skills, absolutely. Knowledge is really important. Trying to get them to have a better understanding of the world, um, of a public opinion, what, you know, what trust issues, policy, public, um, uh, you know, regulatory issues, um, and to get some experience.

[00:24:27] Ross: So they're, they're, they're the fourth thing. Skills, knowledge, experience. But. You've got to have the right attitude.

[00:24:33] Mel: Yeah, I love that. And I think this is related to that as well. For me, it's about seeing a love of learning. I don't want people who are going to just sit on their laurels and keep doing the same thing they've always done because that's what they've always done.

[00:24:46] Mel: And that's comfortable for them. I want people who are excited by learning, who are curious by nature, because as you say, everything's changing so quickly, but also, you know, at the core of a lot of what we do is telling stories and you can't do that well, if [00:25:00] you're not curious; if you're not asking the right questions and digging deeper into things as well.

[00:25:06] Mel: Uh, and that again comes into that attitude piece. You know, if there's an opportunity and it's an opportunity to learn and it's going to take you outside of your comfort zone, it's going to take you outside of the nine to five.

[00:25:16] Mel: Grab it. Just, just go for it because you won't get that again. So, you know, just jump in, see what you can do.

[00:25:25] Ross: Yep. And embrace the change. I mean, you know, I don't think there's ever been a better time to be a professional communicator. It's more challenging than ever, but I think that brings with it so many opportunities.

[00:25:38] Mel: Thanks so much for sharing all of that with us, Ross. I'm going to ask you three questions I ask every guest on the podcast. Are you ready for those?

[00:25:47] Ross: Ready as I'll ever be.

[00:25:48] Mel: Excellent. Okay. Question number one, what's one of the best communication lessons you've ever learned and how did it change the way you approach communication?

[00:25:58] Ross: Oh, look, I, [00:26:00] I, I'll It was a phrase, I think, you know, we've got two ears and one mouth, use them in that proportion. I think a lot of people think that. Comms people are out there to, you know, distribute messages, but a really, really important part of our job is to listen and to consult. Um, I've got so many experiences where that's it's just been so important. You know, probably one of the biggest ones is when I was tasked to deal with the mobile phone industry within Australia. We had the power to go out and put mobile phone towers wherever we wanted. I convinced the industry we should consult with the community and let them be partners in choosing the most appropriate.

[00:26:51] Ross: There was some skepticism, but we got a big accounting firm to come in and crunch the numbers on, the hard [00:27:00] numbers, not the, you know, reputational issues, how much, you know, the legals, all of that. We discovered that it was about half the cost if we listened and consulted, it saved us about half the cost of putting up a mobile phone tower, which.. 500, 000 dollars for a mobile phone tower back in the day, and there are about 800 going up a year. That's a lot of savings from this connection.

[00:27:27] Mel: That's huge and a great lesson to, for anybody to learn, really. Thank you. The next question, what's one thing you wish people would do more of or less of when communicating?

[00:27:39] Ross: Uh, well, probably related to the listening. Look, I think, you know, listen to people, um, but go beyond the listening. I mean, because look, I'll probably go back to that mobile phone example as well. One thing that I learned is that if you don't [00:28:00] actually genuinely listen to people. You're going to miss the point, and you're going to have this, you know, you're never going to meet in the middle.

[00:28:10] Ross: And even when people are saying things, you have to, sometimes, listen to why they're saying that and and the issues, you know, from mobile phone towers as many people were saying that, oh, you know, my biggest concern is, you know, the health issues. But when you start to dig deeper into those issues, they were also concerned about, um, you know, the property value issues. And the aesthetics.

[00:28:35] Ross: So really listen and dig deep to truly understand who we're communicating with. Being a target public focus communicator is what I tell my students that they should be. Um, because if you really understand your, uh, the people that you're communicating with, you're going to have a much better chance of, um, you know, getting through to them.

[00:28:56] Mel: Louder for the people at the back. Love that. [00:29:00] Final question. Who do you turn to for communication advice?

[00:29:04] Ross: Oh, that's a good question. Um, my network. Look, I think being a network's leader is really, really important. Having a pool of people... that you can call on in different situations that can guide you, that can advise you, and, um, importantly, be a shoulder to cry on. Absolutely.

[00:29:29] Mel: And that's one of the things I've absolutely loved about being part of IABC is not only has it expanded my network within Brisbane, but within Australia, within Asia, around the world. Like, people in Canada that I would not have met otherwise.

[00:29:43] Mel: Professionals all over the UK, all over the US. throughout Asia and you know, like that to me is where there's so much joy in being part of that network too.

[00:29:56] Ross: Yeah, absolutely. We've got to walk the talk. I mean, get out there. [00:30:00] And if we truly want to understand, you know, how our organisations, uh, fit within the world and what we need to do to make them great organisations, because to me, that's what professional communication is.

[00:30:12] Mel: Awesome. Well, Ross, if people want to connect with you or find out more about you, how can they do that?

[00:30:18] Ross: Well, probably LinkedIn is the best way to go. So you can just go to rossmonaghan. live forward slash LinkedIn, or I'm pretty easy to find on LinkedIn. Um, my social media handle is The Media Pod, T H E M E D I A P O D.

[00:30:34] Mel: Ross, thanks again so much for your time. Really enjoyed our chat.

[00:30:37] Ross: It's been fantastic. Thanks, Mel.