[00:00:00] Does this scenario sound familiar? Your job is as a communications professional and part of your job is to support the CEO and other c suite executives in their comms. The challenge is that the CEO doesn't listen to your advice and they are tanking. Every time they open their mouth, you're not sure what's going to come out because they're not reading what you've prepared.

[00:00:23] And they're not thinking about their audience. Everything is so high level and vague. It means nothing to anyone. The worst part is it's starting to show in the feedback surveys. And of course, this has a huge impact on employee engagement and puts the strategy at risk. So what would you do? Well, that's what today's episode is all about.

[00:00:44] Hello, friends, and welcome to Less Chatter, More Matter, the communications podcast. I'm your host, Mel Loy, and I'm recording this on the lands of the Yuggera and Turrbal people here in Meanjin, also known [00:01:00] as Brisbane. This episode is the second in our series where I help answer your questions. The first episode you can go back and check out, it's how I would approach the AFLW Brisbane Lions membership challenge.

[00:01:13] And if you have a question you'd like me to answer, please get in touch, just shoot me a message or send an email. Now this question was submitted by one of you, dear listeners. The question is, how do I get the CEO to listen to my advice? Now, I can't claim to know all the specifics and I know absolutely nothing about the personality of the CEO involved or their background, but I can provide some ideas based on my own experience.

[00:01:40] So let's get into it. Tip number one ... is baby steps. If you have a CEO or C suite executive who is dismissive of your advice or just ignores it, it's often because they don't think they have an issue. And it's like any stubborn behavior. The first step is to admit you have a problem. [00:02:00] You cannot build self awareness with people.

[00:02:02] So that's off the cards. And also if you're going in with a whole list of things you want them to change about the way they communicate. You are setting yourself up to fail. It's way too overwhelming, especially when a, they may think they're doing fine and B, they are super busy. So this is where we take baby steps.

[00:02:22] Just start with one small thing you want the executive to change. It's called the foot in the door technique. And it's where you prime people for more change by starting with a really small ask that they will be comfortable with and readily agree to. There's a famous experiment about this out of the U. S. where they approached a bunch of residents in a community. Now half were asked if they could display a sign in the front yard of their home, and the other half were asked if they could just display a small sign in one of their front windows. Those who were asked to display the small sign in one of their windows were obviously much more likely to agree.

[00:02:59] [00:03:00] But here's where it gets interesting. After a short period, the researchers then went back to those who agreed with the small sign and asked if they now display a bigger sign in their front yards. And they were more likely to agree to that than the control group was. So when talking to the executive about making one small change, you could also try reframing it as experimenting.

[00:03:24] So a lot of executives like to think they're creative and innovative, et cetera. So by framing it as experimenting, you're appealing to that part of their identity. And it gives the impression that the change isn't necessarily permanent, which again, can make it more palatable to those people who are risk averse.

[00:03:41] So that's tip number one, Take baby steps. The second tip, and you should probably do this when you first meet them anyway, is to ask how they've worked with communication partners in the past, what worked well, and what didn't. Now, this gives you a sense of how they like to work, and it could [00:04:00] be that your approach isn't in line with their preferred way of working.

[00:04:03] So, for example, some execs might like a very detailed written brief. Others will want to talk it through and brainstorm it out loud. If you're going in there with a word for word speech when all they really want is key messages, then you're not tailoring your comms to your audience. So find out how they prefer to communicate.

[00:04:23] So for example, I used to support a CEO who was very different to the one before him. Where the previous CEO, I had to labor for hours and hours over very detailed briefs. This new CEO wouldn't read any of it, despite my best efforts to get him to try. It turned out that he wanted to chat through what to say and how.

[00:04:43] So basically he liked to process out loud. And then he would create his own notes. That was his process. And by having his own notes written in his way, he was much more confident and could easily speak off the cuff. But we needed to chat through first what some of the key messages were that [00:05:00] I needed him to hit.

[00:05:01] So tailoring my approach to his needs made it much easier for both of us. One way to approach this conversation is also to frame it around their internal brand. Your job as a comms partner is to help them build a brand as an executive. So talk to them about what are their aspirations for their internal brand, and then how your comms approach and strategy could help them achieve that.

[00:05:26] Number three, is find out where the real influence lies. And oftentimes you need to recruit an ally to help you influence the executives. These allies are the people who actually have influence with the C suite or the CEO, and they might be other C suite executives, but here's my top tip. I often find the real influence... is their executive assistant or Chief of Staff if they have one think about it, these people spend all day with your CEO or executive. Over time, they've built really trusted relationships and they're often the [00:06:00] gatekeepers to the CEO so you need to build a relationship with those people. That's where the real power lies.

[00:06:05] If they can start to influence the CEO to take your advice seriously, you will be in a great position. Also, this will also be about baby steps and really relies on your ability to build a rapport with key influencers. Don't go in just guns blazing. Start by, you know, seeing if you can get them a coffee when you're going out to get one.

[00:06:25] Ask about their weekend. Remember to ask about things that are important to them. Treat them like a human being. Do the groundwork of building a rapport, and then you can start with the small asks. So for example, you could then go, Oh, Hey Tim, next time you're speaking to Lucy, could you please ask her if she's okay if we include a Slido poll in her next town hall?

[00:06:45] Some of the feedback we've gotten is that people want it to be more interactive. And I think something simple like this could really help. Okay, so you've had that relationship built and now you can start to ask them to influence up. Another point on [00:07:00] influence is social proof. This is a very powerful persuasive technique because people want to feel like they're part of the in group, right?

[00:07:06] And if others are doing it, We want to do it too. I mean, think about this scenario. You're going out to get ice cream. There are two stores that sell ice cream on the same street, about 100 meters apart. One store has a long line out the front. The other store doesn't. Which one are you likely to think has better ice cream?

[00:07:27] Probably the one with the long line because even though you have absolutely no proof of that, and it's likely those people just started lining up because everyone else did, that line gives you social proof. It tells you that story's better. That is the power of social proof. We see it all the time. So how do you use it to influence when you're having this conversation about how to work together?

[00:07:48] We'll go back to framing this around the executives brand and ask a question like, you know, who is a communicator that they admire and why? You know, maybe it's Steve Jobs, for example. Ask [00:08:00] why to tease out the things that are important to the executive, and this is going to be very powerful because if they admire this person, then they want to be seen like them.

[00:08:09] So hopefully some of the things your exec will say are that they admire their simple style, the way they make the complex easy to understand, etc. And then you can say how people really warm to those elements too. So, you know, why don't we try doing more of that in their comms? Okay, number four, like all good comms pros, I'm sure you are measuring the outcomes of your work.

[00:08:31] So you should have data that you can pull on to make a case for change. So tip number four, use the data. So for example, let's say you've got feedback surveys after a town hall. You've got readership and click through rates on emails, length of viewing of videos, anonymous feedback mechanisms, et cetera, et cetera.

[00:08:49] Execs are using data all the time to make informed decisions about the business, and this is no different. So what data do you have to pull on that you could use to help make a case [00:09:00] for doing things differently? Now, again, just focus on one change at a time and give the illusion of choice. So, for example, maybe you share feedback on a town hall where a lot of people indicated they didn't understand the organisation strategy even after the CEO spoke through it.

[00:09:16] You could present that data and give a few options for how the CEO could address it next time. You know, option one, review the recording and see what language or words we use that we could experiment with changing, making it clearer about what it means for the audience. Option two could be creating a simple diagram that CEO can then use as a visual aid to speak to.

[00:09:36] Option three, try both, but give them the choice and hopefully they'll choose option three and they will still feel like they're in control. For lots of CEOs, that sense of control is very important. Also, this is where you could employ priming and the consistency bias. So priming is where we use a leading question.

[00:09:57] So for example, to get people in a [00:10:00] certain way of thinking, you could ask a question like, do you agree that it's important that we make decisions based on data, not just our gut feel? Or you could ask a question like, how important do you think it is that we make data informed decisions here and role model that to the business?

[00:10:15] Now, hopefully they would respond in the positive to that, and it primes their thinking to take the data seriously. Then you can use that response to trigger the consistency bias, which basically means we strive to remain true to our publicly stated opinions and behaviours, even if we secretly want to change them.

[00:10:33] We value consistency. It's very, very persuasive. So if there is ever a glitch in the matrix and your exec starts to ignore the data, just remind them about what they said earlier. So for example, you could say, I remember you once said that it was really important to you that we make data informed decisions and role model that to the organisation.

[00:10:52] Is that still true? If so, this is a great way to demonstrate that. Okay. Tip number five is to draw on the concept of [00:11:00] loss aversion. Loss aversion is a term coined by Daniel Kahneman and Amos Tversky. They basically found that: humans are irrational when it comes to decision making, and we tend to overvalue potential losses and undervalue potential gains.

[00:11:14] So for example, you might enter a competition to win 50 bucks. To enter costs you 2 dollars. It's likely that if you don't win, you will feel the loss of 2 much more than you'd feel the win of 50 dollars. So how do we use that in this scenario? Remind the C suite of what they risk losing by not taking your advice. So for example, they might gain a tick in their KPI box by speaking at a town hall, but they risk ruining their reputation internally and impacting employee engagement by not speaking clearly.

[00:11:46] I'm not speaking about the things that actually matter to the audience. Okay. Final tip number six is, and this is the big one. You need to build your own credibility as a trusted expert advisor, and that is not [00:12:00] going to happen overnight just because you have a role title. Doesn't mean they automatically respect you.

[00:12:06] Trust needs to be built. You can't just say to an executive, trust me, and they will. So how do you do that? Number one, like we said, build rapport, engage in conversation with them, like they're a human being and show interest in what they're interested in. Trust them. Number two, demonstrate business acumen.

[00:12:24] Show that you're well across what's going on in the industry, the business goals, and so on. Talk the language that they talk. Number three is find advocates. So whether that's your direct leader or another, find people who will sing your praises to the executive when you're not in the room. Number four, deliver quality work.

[00:12:43] This goes without saying, but make sure everything you produce is top notch from the way it looks through to how you demonstrate strategic thinking, measurement, and follow through. Consistency is key here, consistent quality. And number five, listen thoughtfully. Don't whine, don't [00:13:00] interject, listen to what they have to say, and then play it back.

[00:13:03] Not only to check your understanding, but also to show that you're paying attention. The big caveat around all of this obviously is personality; that makes a big difference in how you approach a person, along with whatever your cultural norms are in your organisation. So, for example, if you're in a very hierarchical culture, that means the way you address the C suite will be quite different to a less hierarchical culture.

[00:13:27] And also do not expect this change to happen overnight. In most cases, because it's baby steps, it's a slow burn. A long sustained campaign to prove your worth, but it's worth it. Don't give up. Okay. It's time for your episode recap. In today's edition of what would Mel do? I answered a question from a listener about how to get the C suite to change the way they communicate for the better when they're not listening to you.

[00:13:53] I've offered six top tips to help. Number one, baby steps. Change one small thing at a time. [00:14:00] That will make it seem less overwhelming and it will start to get the C suite comfortable with making changes. Number two, ask how they prefer to work with communications professionals. Find out what works for them in terms of how you help them prepare and think about framing it around helping them to build their brand.

[00:14:18] Number three, find out where the real influence is. Is it their executive assistant? Another C suite member? A board member? Who did they listen to? Build a relationship with those people. Number four, use the data. Tell a story with measurement and provide options to respond to feedback so they feel they have the choice.

[00:14:38] Number five, draw on loss aversion. So talk about what they potentially lose, not gain by not changing things. Remember, losses loom larger than gains and a lot of senior execs are very risk averse. Number six, build your own brand as a trusted advisor, demonstrate your business acumen and speak their language and find advocates [00:15:00] in the business who can vouch for you.

[00:15:02] Okay, well, I hope you found that really useful today. And as I said, at the top of the episode, if you have a question you'd like me to help you answer, please write in, send me a message, whatever you need to do to get my attention and I'll pop it on the list for potentially doing a future episode on. As always, you can stay up to date by following me on LinkedIn and Instagram.

[00:15:21] Those links are in the show notes. And don't forget about our fortnightly newsletter. It is packed full of value. There's currently more than 1, 500 people who receive that email every fortnight. And the open rates pretty good. It's about 60 to 70%. So clearly we're getting a lot of value across to a lot of people.

[00:15:39] You don't want to miss that out. Again, the links in the show notes. In the meantime, keep doing amazing things and bye for now.