[00:00:00] Mel: We all know change is the new normal. Every day, in every workplace, change is happening more frequently, faster, and at a bigger scale than ever before. This is where comms and change professionals step in. We've now become highly sought after specialists in organisations of all shapes and sizes across all different sectors. And now that we've been working on change projects for some time, there's many lessons to be learned and shared. For some, it's about the change process itself. For others, it's about how to make change management a career. And for others, again, it's everything else in between. So what are some of these common challenges and how do we step in to tackle them?

[00:00:41] Mel: That's what today's episode is all about.

[00:00:46] Mel: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Less Chatter, More Matter, the communications podcast. My name is Mel Loy, and I'm recording this on the lands of the Yuggera and Turrbal people here in Meanjin, Brisbane. And today [00:01:00] I'm bringing you another interview with another superstar. This time it's Lata Hamilton.

[00:01:05] Mel: As you'll hear in our chat, Lata started her professional life in media and communications before moving into advertising, professional comms, and eventually change management. These days, she's a change leadership and confidence expert, author of Pioneer Your Career Change and the creator of the Leading Successful Change Program.

[00:01:26] Mel: Her mission is to help women carve their own paths for change in career, leadership, and life, and find the confidence and authenticity to truly earn their worth. Lata has worked with some of Australia's biggest companies on changes that have impacted over 100, 000 people, including operating model changes impacting thousands.

[00:01:43] Mel: Global cultural transformations and digital transformation that is literally changing the way we work. In today's chat I pick Lata's brains on some of the common challenges she's seeing with her change clients. What some of the opportunities are when an organisation is navigating change and how people [00:02:00] can embark on a career in change management.

[00:02:02] Mel: It is a wide ranging chat. We covered a lot of ground, but Lata also shared some excellent insights that I'm sure will resonate with you too. And so without further ado, here's Lata Hamilton.

[00:02:15] Lata: Hey, Mel. Thanks so much for having me.

[00:02:18] Mel: Thank you for coming along. I've been wanting to chat to you for a long time, so I'm excited that you are here. But before we get into today's topic, can you tell us a little bit about you? Who you are, what you do and how you came to develop your expertise in that space.

[00:02:31] Lata: Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Lata Hamilton. I'm a change leadership and confidence expert. Um, I guess a few fast fun facts about me. I'm a cardio junkie. I love running, swimming, skiing. Um, just got back from a ski trip in Austria. Um, and yoga. I do yoga on, on Sundays under the Sydney Harbour Bridge. It's just beautiful looking over the harbour.

[00:02:55] Lata: Um, I'm also an absolute foodie. I love food and I feel like those things balance [00:03:00] themselves out.

[00:03:00] Mel: Oh, totally, totally.

[00:03:02] Lata: And I'm also an avid thrift shopper. So even the dress that I'm wearing, if you can see it, um, yeah, it's a, it's a thrifted dress. Most of my wardrobe is thrifted. Um, and I just love sort of like really unique, cool threads, um, and the sustainability aspect of it.

[00:03:16] Lata: And. Um, I guess sort of my background, um, I went to university and I studied media and communications. Um, so it was a four year degree. It was actually very journalism heavy, um, and sort of more, I guess, more politics focused, which isn't really me. Um, so when I left uni, I actually went into the space of advertising, um, and I worked there, um, in my last year of uni and then for sort of a year after university, um, and then I ended up moving into the marketing and sales field. And I got a graduate program in marketing and sales. So I did that for a couple of years. Um, and then I sort of was working in marketing for a bit. And then, uh, literally just a colleague, um, who had been a project manager in the past, she was like, Oh, I think you'd be really good in change management.

[00:03:58] Lata: Cause I was thinking about what do I [00:04:00] want to move into next? And she's like, I think you'd be really good in change management. And I'm like, what's that? No idea what that was. Um, So yeah, I went to the Change Management Institute, sort of free networking drinks at the end of the year. And I just remember like meeting the people and they were so helpful and friendly and welcoming as well.

[00:04:22] Lata: And I just remember thinking to myself, like, if this is the kind of people that change management attracts, this is the kind of profession that I want to work in. Um, and so yeah, I started applying for roles in change. Um. Um, and landed my first position, and so I've been working in change for over eight years now, and I'm just kind of growing from strength to strength.

[00:04:41] Lata: I've mostly worked with really big corporates, um, on really, really massive sort of organisational changes. Um, and then when I moved to my own business and started my own change management consultancy, a couple of years ago, um, I mostly work with medium sized organisations now. And sort of doing both [00:05:00] change consulting and delivery with them because they often don't have like a lot of, um, capability in house and they've never maybe experienced major transformation and change.

[00:05:09] Lata: Um, so I love doing that, but I also love building capability and leaving that capability in the organisation.

[00:05:16] Mel: Brilliant. Yeah. And I have to agree. I think, uh, we do a lot of work with medium sized businesses as well, because yes, they're going through quite massive transformation, but just don't have, you know, the hands there to help.

[00:05:27] Mel: They don't necessarily have the experience and, you know, building that capability. And I always feel like if we leave... an organisation in a better state than when we found it with that capability to keep going. We've done our jobs really well. I do want to circle back to something you said in the intro, which is you're a confidence expert.

[00:05:43] Mel: How does one become a confidence expert? How does, what do you do as a confidence expert?

[00:05:49] Lata: So when I was still working in marketing, um, so before I moved into change management, I sort of went to my first personal development course, so I'm, I'm actually accredited in neurolinguistic [00:06:00] programming. It's a bit of a mouthful. So like to use NLP for short; it's much easier to say NLP. Um, and coaching. So I became an accredited NLP practitioner and coach, so then I was like, Oh, well, I've got this coaching certification, so I might as well start coaching. And so I was really good at it. And I just found that I actually attracted a lot of young professional women, people who were like me, who were really ambitious in their career. They were really good at what they did, but they felt like they were stuck.

[00:06:26] Lata: They felt like they were being held back. Maybe they wanted to go for a pay rise or promotion or career change or find what they were really passionate about. So I often, um, like I worked with men and women at the beginning, but I just noticed that I started to attract a lot more sort of professional women.

[00:06:41] Lata: Um, and yeah, I think that confidence ends up being the core root of everything in our career and as I like to say, the career is the launchpad to the rest of your life. You can really use your career as a socially sanctioned way to build the wealth and abundance and the life and the lifestyle through the way that [00:07:00] you work, like your employment type and the types of roles that you take, which is one of the reasons I love change management because it's project work.

[00:07:06] Mel: Yeah. Okay. Thanks for sharing that. So let's get into your work. What are some of the biggest change challenges you see when you're working with clients?

[00:07:16] Lata: I think a big one is the fact that there just is no capability. So, you know, if we go back to some of those medium sized organisations that I often tend to work with, it's not the only consulting clients that I work with, but often like they don't even have project capability sometimes.

[00:07:31] Lata: So they haven't done big transformation before. And Um, what I find, I do work on a lot of digital changes and enterprise resource platforms. So ERP is where, you know, it's multiple modules that are being used to track, like to, to, that are the foundation of all the functions in the business, all the business functions, and they going to try and do that sort of.

[00:07:54] Lata: Big transformation without having that project capability, without having that change experience. They haven't [00:08:00] built a level of comfort with change because they've often been staying the same for the last 20 years, maybe making a few little tweaks here and there, um, but they've never really done full, proper transformation before.

[00:08:11] Lata: And so they, Like, it's really scary for their people, it's really tough for them, and it's tough for them to, to do it well, to do it strategically, and to do it, um, smoothly and at pace, because they haven't got some of those really foundational things in place. So I think just, Capability generally, um, I had before a transformation, I think is one of the big, the big, um, bugbears.

[00:08:36] Lata: I think another one is, you know, a big part of change is understanding what people currently do today. And I think a lot of clients, they don't want to spend the time or kind of in inverted commas, waste the time doing current process mapping. Instead, they're like, no, I just want to go straight to this future state.

[00:08:55] Lata: But the problem is, is like, I like to say like. Current process mapping is actually an engagement [00:09:00] tool for your people. It's helping them to understand what they currently do, where the pain points are. Um, and you know, when we go in to do things like training, for example, or, or just change communications, it's like, you need to be able to explain what you've been doing before and then what you're going to do differently in the future.

[00:09:16] Lata: So there's so many benefits to actually taking that time to do sort of like the current process mapping. And then the third thing I'd say is the opportunity that comes with. Change, like just, just putting in a new system, if we use the system example, cause I think it's a well known one that everybody has.

[00:09:35] Mel: It's happening everywhere.

[00:09:36] Lata: It's happening everywhere and it always happens, right? So, like. Like, if you are putting in a new system, the system is not the change. The system isn't the change. The transformation comes from what the system enables your business to do differently.

[00:09:50] Lata: Which could be things like, you know, if you've put, if you're putting in a new dashboard It's like, or reporting, it's like, just having the data isn't enough for [00:10:00] people. Like, it's how you use that data and use it to make really strategic business decisions. Or, if you get your time freed up because the system is automated or AI is taking over some of your tasks, for example.

[00:10:13] Lata: That's not the benefit. The benefit is, is then your people might be able to go and be a better business partner with customers or clients or community and actually spend that time to really, um, partner strategically with their, um, customers, clients, or community, and actually help them work on their business so that you both grow together.

[00:10:34] Lata: Like those are the types of opportunities that come and I think as well, like change is such a great. Time to build coaching capability with leaders. Um, because if you can learn that, those kinds of coaching tools, like the ones that I sort of teach in my programs and things, the NLP and coaching tools and techniques, if you use it for that one change, you have it then there forever more and any change that comes knocking on your door, either that you have to [00:11:00] cascade as a leader, or maybe that you have to, um, or that you want to initiate yourself.

[00:11:05] Lata: You then have those coaching tools at your disposal to help your team in the future and, and also yourself. It also helps you to lead yourself through the change, to receive change better, to accept and adopt change better. And, um, You know, I think as leaders, there's often this feeling that it all rests on a leader's shoulders and they cannot be seen as being vulnerable or being impacted by the change because they're the ones that have to either lead it or cascade it, but they're people too.

[00:11:33] Lata: And so having some of these capabilities, these core capabilities, it's like there's this business benefit to that. Not just for now and making the change successful, but well into the future. But then also this personal transformation that can come. And I think when you mix those two things together, I think like a lot of business transformation is actually driven by the personal transformation that leaders and teams feel and experience.

[00:11:59] Mel: Yeah. And [00:12:00] I do agree with that because, you know, that's kind of linked back to the capability challenge you were saying, right? You know, we, we often put leaders in these positions and just expect them to know. How to lead change and how to communicate and, you know, if they haven't been given that capability building, if they don't have the confidence to do that, then.

[00:12:18] Mel: You know, you've got to build, it's almost like building the plane as you're flying it a lot of the, I know that's my experience in a lot of these organisations is you're trying to give the captain the capability to fly the plane while the plane is being built and flying. Um, but to your point too, it's that, you know, what's the value you get out of the change.

[00:12:39] Mel: And, uh, it's not just a new system that makes life easier. And as you say, you know, system change is happening all the time. I sort of say change isn't hard. We change stuff all the time. We don't like, it's hard when it happens to us and we feel like we have no control. Um, but it's hard because humans.

[00:12:58] Lata: Yeah. Like if you go and [00:13:00] put in a change or in a new system, for example, nobody knows about it, likes it, wants to use it or uses it. Like, did you actually put in a new system or was it actually just an illusion really? Yeah. And I've worked on changes like that. Like I've worked on a change Um, they were rolling out a mobility application.

[00:13:20] Lata: So like workforce, um, flowing, workflow flow in an application for these outdoor teams. So they had them all on these, um, tablets and I came in two years later. When they were having to do the change from scratch again, they were having to build a brand new application from scratch. The hardware also wasn't suitable out of a hundred devices.

[00:13:44] Lata: They only had, um, 10 left that were like kind of working and some of those was actually in repair. Um, and they literally had to start again and what they had been missing in the last one was. Change management and, you know, with change management, if you bring [00:14:00] change in early enough, not just for the communication side to really get the communications really strong and strategic and inspiring and empowering from the beginning; but there's also this benefit because with change, we have that lens on people, we have that lens on: What's it going to take to get these people on board, engaged, over the line, adopting, accepting this change in the future?

[00:14:22] Lata: We'll often, um, you know, really advocate for co creation and co design. We'll often advocate for bringing in some real users to help with, you know, requirements, gathering and process mapping and design development, build and testing before user acceptance testing, before you get to Like the nitty gritty point of your change before you get to, Oh, okay.

[00:14:45] Use those resources at your disposal, um, to approach the way that you do a transformation and a change in a project differently, because the, the, the value that you get, the benefit that you get when you do go to implement - half the work's been done [00:15:00] already, the groundwork's already been laid.

[00:15:01] Lata: People already understand and accept and, and in many cases agree. Um, and then, and then what you're really doing in implementation is just teaching the technical training.

[00:15:12] Mel: And I think what you've just spoken to there too is the business case for investing in change management because you don't want to be spending all this money only to have to go spend a whole lot more money two years down the track.

[00:15:22] Mel: So thank you for reiterating that. So that's the challenges. Let's move on to what are you seeing that's working really well?

[00:15:28] Lata: I, this is maybe a bit controversial because I don't really hear anybody else talking about it. I really think it's pertinent, especially for change communications. I love using online business tools and techniques... in my internal change management work. So I've got my own online business. I've got my own online courses, content, blog, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I've done a lot of that kind of like almost, I guess, like entrepreneurial, um, programs [00:16:00] and I like kind of borrow those ideas from that online business space and use them in my... um, internal change management delivery because what works out there in the external world obviously works in the internal world because people are the same everywhere. People's psychology is the same regardless of the arena and if it's working really well, you know, on social media or sort of out and about there, it's like, why not use that and bring that, um, into the internal.

[00:16:33] Lata: Instead of focusing and I think Mel, I'm sure you'll probably very, very experienced in this. Those really dry corporate communication. They're very like, do you know what I mean? And you're like, even, even the leaders don't want to read it. Like, do you know what I mean? Like even the leaders are like. This is really boring. This doesn't resonate.

[00:16:53] Mel: The last, latest stat I saw, most people only read an email, and read is a strong term, they skim. [00:17:00] Yeah. Uh, max, 50 to 150 words. That's it.

[00:17:03] Lata: If you haven't nailed them in that first paragraph.

[00:17:07] Mel: Forget it. And that's just email, let alone all the other channels we're bombarding them with, yeah.

[00:17:12] Lata: Yeah, the channel overload, like, it's just crazy, and I remember, like, a few years ago, I was, like, trying to post on LinkedIn, and I was, like, trying to write those LinkedIn articles, I don't know, but I was, like, doing some research on, like, the articles that resonate, and the interesting thing that they found was that actually, even on LinkedIn, even on a professional platform and no matter what level of the organisation you are, your preferred reading level, as in like when you're taking in content, your preferred reading level is like, um, basically like a 15, 14, 15 year old.

[00:17:45] Lata: So like a year nine ish year 10, um, kind of person. So often those internal communications are really pitched at an executive level. Like, and even executives would love to just consume something that's really easy.

[00:17:58] Mel: Yeah, they're time poor, [00:18:00] they're so time poor. And this is the thing too, I found that, um, you know, I see change managers and comms managers, sometimes they're... both the same person writing these really long, extensive change plans and comms plans. I'm like, well, who's the audience for that? Because if the audience is you and that's helping you get your work done. Awesome. That's great. Nobody else is reading it. So if you're trying to explain to, or at least, you know, demonstrate to those senior leaders what you're doing, get it on one page.

[00:18:30] Mel: Um, they will ask the questions if they want the detail. But they do not have the time to consume that level of detail and at that pitched at that level as well as you say. So I love this idea of bringing in the outside in and thinking about the tools that, you know, we use externally and having that entrepreneurial mindset. So thank you for sharing that.

[00:18:50] Lata: And I think actually give just one really good example that I'm sure like your listeners will come across. How often do change champions get nominated? [00:19:00] So they get nominated by the leaders and often they're the same people. Voluntold, yes, voluntold! Often they're the same people who get nominated all the time.

[00:19:09] Lata: So they're, they're the, you know, savvy, really supportive people in the, in the team and they get landed with this all the time. Right. And so then they get landed with the next change again and they're having to be the change champion for that again. And it's like, instead of nominating like in an online business, so for example, if I'm running a launch or a masterclass.

[00:19:27] Lata: It's like, it's opt in. You don't just get like the link to join whenever you like. You have to tell me that you want to be there. You have, like, I have to make it sound so appealing to you and provide so much value to you that you're like, yup, I want to actually register for this thing and tell Lata that I want to be there and, um, and then show up and consume it.

[00:19:48] Lata: And it's like, we should be doing that in our internal changes because having, having a... change champion network of 10 really engaged people who you support and give so much support, value, [00:20:00] coaching capability to - can be so much more valuable than having 50 people who got voluntold.

[00:20:05] Mel: Oh, totally. Yeah. Yeah. Totally agree. Now. I want to move on to the other piece of work that you do, which is helping people take that career sidestep. So often from either HR roles or project management or comms even interchange. What are some of the biggest motivators that you see for people who want to, or who are even just considering taking that sidestep?

[00:20:30] Lata: I think that sometimes it's about having, um, well, I think let's just start with the first one. Let's just put it on the table, money. So change management is a highly paid, female dominated profession and there is no other profession or not many other professions that I could ever say that about, where it's both female dominated and highly paid. Where in some cases change managers actually earn more than project managers working on the same project, like the rates and the salaries can be very, very, um, Uh, [00:21:00] generous, , very generous, and it's a growing profession worldwide. Because I think Covid shone a light on the fact that there is very little change capability out there generally.

[00:21:11] Lata: But another one I think is sometimes you want to have a bit more of the influence. And I think sometimes change managers come in as that advisor and you know, sometimes it could be a change comms person. Um, but they come in as that sort of trusted advisor. So maybe instead of being, um, within the business team, so as part of like the business as usual teams, and you've been you know, you've been asking for resources, or you've been telling people that this channel is not effective, but they keep wanting you to do it anyway.

[00:21:41] Lata: Sometimes when you come in and work as a change practitioner, change professional, or change and comms professional, you come in with a little bit of a different, Um, aura about you, there's a little bit more like, um, respect, I think for your expertise and [00:22:00] people are like, Oh, we've got this change manager.

[00:22:01] Lata: And I think some of that comes to the fact that we are highly paid, you know, we've got this change manager, we need to use them. And unlike a project manager who has the authority often to manage the project resources and the stakeholders and the leaders and things like that in change management, we do not have authority over almost anybody.

[00:22:20] Lata: And so we are always using our influencing skills, but saying that I just feel like sometimes there's that different energy, so it can be a bit more of a rewarding way, I think, for those people who might be HR, comms, learning and development, who sometimes even project managers who maybe have been trying to fly the flag for so long and they just keep getting told no or keep getting kind of held back or, um, haven't been able to effectively influence, then it could be a great, um, choice to, to kind of pivot.

[00:22:51] Mel: Well, look, and you raise a point there that I've seen time and time again, you know, a lot of organisations. Uh, really good at hiring experts [00:23:00] and then not listening to them. And then a consulting comes in and says exactly the same thing. And all of a sudden, Oh my God, it's a light bulb moment. Uh, and I know how frustrating that is.

[00:23:09] Mel: I've been that in house person. I'm sure you have too. Um, but you know, it is a good position to be in because then you can work with those people in house and say, okay. What have you been trying to advocate for that maybe I can help with? And that can help to build those relationships as well, which you're going to need to get stuff done.

[00:23:26] Mel: So awesome. Thank you for that. So for those people who may be considering that move, what are some of your top tips for them when they're thinking about that?

[00:23:35] Lata: I would just say, like, you already have the skills. Like, you already have the transferable skills. Like what my very first change leader said to me.

[00:23:43] Lata: You might not have been calling it that you might not have necessarily been. Using the structural, the tools and the templates and things, but you've been doing change in your marketing, in your events, in your advertising. Like, and when I got into change management, I was like, she's damn right. Like she was so correct.

[00:23:58] Lata: And it is so true. Like, [00:24:00] like so many professions, whether it's HR operations, um, learning and development, obviously communications, project managers. Um, Marketing, like my background, you have the transferable skills to move into change. You might just need to learn like the practical side, which is like what to actually do in order to build again, build that confidence to make that, to make that change.

[00:24:21] Lata: And what I would also say is, you know, if we do think about AI, I know we mentioned it just recently. Some of those other professions, their roles probably are going to be very highly impacted by artificial intelligence, where, whether the rightly or wrongly, whether for quality or not. You know what I mean?

[00:24:41] Lata: Like, I'm not saying it's the right thing to do. I'm just saying that there are going to be a lot of organisations that are like, well, let's save a buck instead of hiring a comms person. Let's, um, you know, outsource this to some AI bot that actually doesn't give that give probably gives them the corporate communications because it's learning from the past, right?

[00:24:57] Lata: Not going to work. But [00:25:00] if you think about the nature of change, because often in organisations, there is no foundation. There is no stability. There's nothing for an AI to learn from, even if it's an enterprise wide AI, it's like as change people, we come in and we help make sense of what's going on and we, we do that through communications, we do that through conversations, we do that through deep stakeholder engagement and analysis, things that, you know, you really can't get automation or AI to do because a lot of AI these days is actually automation.

[00:25:31] Lata: It's actually not true AI. That's true. You can't get it to do that. So I think there's just this extra longevity. So I think just building your skills in this space can be really good from a career future proofing perspective because it gives you those extra tools at your disposal to be showcasing that you can add this value. And then you can harness AI maybe to make some of your job easier and then add value in really new and different ways and [00:26:00] really take things to the next level.

[00:26:01] Mel: Yeah, I love that. And that actually leads me to my next question. So, and the last question is, you know, we, AI, as you say, it's becoming a part of our worlds and definitely in the comms world. We're seeing the impact of that. You know, I don't think it depends on what organisation you're in. So these bigger organisations, you can use AI as a tool. It's the people who aren't using it who are going to be left behind in many cases. From a change perspective, have you seen some examples of how AI change and what role do you think it has to play in change in the future?

[00:26:37] Lata: I haven't, personally, I haven't seen too much, but I have been staying, um, abreast, I would say, probably over the last couple of years. Interestingly, when AI was all the rage, um, and really like the buzzword, I actually chose, ironically, to not learn from anybody in the change space or anybody in the corporate space.

[00:26:56] Lata: I chose to learn how to use AI from my mentor in the [00:27:00] online business space because he's like a world market leader in online business. I have then stayed abreast of how it can be used in change going to, you know, different like round tables and, um, attending sessions online and things like that. So far, I've seen it probably, you know, I haven't seen the full execution. I think there's been a lot of talk of the potential, but I don't think it's there yet.

[00:27:23] Lata: It will, I think it will be. So I think it's just, you know, taking things as they come. Not getting shiny object syndrome. Also not getting FOMO. You're not far behind just yet. But just keep your ears and eyes open. Really be discerning about who you learn from.

[00:27:39] Lata: Learn from the market leaders. So much of what you do today will absolutely still be valuable. You'll probably end up spending a lot of your skills correcting the stuff that AI does.

[00:27:49] Mel: Yeah. I totally agree. And I think like even just yesterday, I had an example where, uh, some people had written some comms to go out and it started with, we're so excited, blah, blah, blah.

[00:27:58] Mel: I'm like, so there's just been [00:28:00] a cyclone. So this could come across as a bit tone deaf and you know, those that it's that kind of human thinking that I don't think will ever... yeah, really go away. Well, Lata, there's three questions I ask everybody on the podcast. Are you ready for those?

[00:28:15] Lata: Okay, go for it.

[00:28:16] Mel: Let's do it. Okay. What is one of the best communication lessons you've ever learned, and how did it change the way you approach communication?

[00:28:24] Lata: So, for me, it was actually when I was doing my NLP and coaching... sort of trainings and I learned about different personality types and because in change management we work with so many different stakeholders. So when I'm really struggling with a particular stakeholder, I I really like I'll take a step back and try and understand or try to see what is their personality type. And then I'll adjust my communication style to their personality type and it's been so powerful over the years, working with different stakeholders [00:29:00] or crafting things for different types of teams that I actually built that into my course, because I was like, this is just, it's so useful and it's not something that necessarily like, I mean, you can absolutely use it when you're like writing comms or creating video.

[00:29:12] Lata: So I kind of bring it in. It's sort of everywhere, but I just really think that when you're struggling with that one stakeholder and you're like, why do they hate me? Like really taking a step back knowing it's not about you.

[00:29:23] Mel: Yes. And I love it.

[00:29:24] Lata: It's how they want to be communicated to.

[00:29:26] Mel: So when you bring that into our training and everything as well too, and you've hit the nail on the head, there's no one size fits all. Okay, next question. What's one thing you wish people would do more of or less of when communicating?

[00:29:39] Lata: I think like what we just talked about, the co creating and the co design. Because like there's been times sometimes where like a client has actually said to me, Oh, why don't you get, um, you know, our change champions or whatever to look at this script, like a video script.

[00:29:52] Lata: So it might be I'm pulling together an animation video, and like, I, I didn't think of that before, like, I was just like, I need to pump out this video, you know what I mean? And so [00:30:00] then I've gotten it sort of, um, I've circulated it , and like, just getting that feedback from them, exactly what you said in terms of like, maybe this is tone deaf for the audience that it's for, but they're in the audience, so they can tell me if it is or if it isn't.

[00:30:14] Lata: So really, use those resources at your disposal if you've got a trusted stakeholder, if you've got Change Champions, if you've got You know, other people within the team have maybe been there longer, like get them to review stuff because sometimes they can catch just those little things that could help to build more trust and authenticity with your communication.

[00:30:32] Mel: I love it. And final question, who do you turn to for communication advice?

[00:30:38] Lata: Like I mentioned, I really look outward a lot. Like I, I really do look, um, to online business a lot. I look to people who are doing really exciting things in the online business space because like even something really simple, like some of those online platforms and the way that like if you land on a wrong page, the message is not just like, you know, page not found.[00:31:00]

[00:31:00] Lata: It's like, whoopsie. Do you know what I mean? Like a real conversational language. It's what people are looking for. They're consuming it day in, day out in their personal life. They expect and. I don't need that to resonate with things in a corporate workplace environment now. So I really look kind of like outwards.

[00:31:20] Mel: I love that. Well, Lata, thank you so much for your time on Less Chatter More Matter today. If people want to find out more about you and what you do and where's the best way to Or where's the best place to find you?

[00:31:32] Lata: Yeah, so definitely come follow me on LinkedIn. I'm just at Lata Hamilton. Um, so you can find me there.

[00:31:38] Lata: Um, you can also find my book, Pioneer Your Career Change. You can find that on Amazon in print and ebook, and it's also on Audible and all other, um, audio book platforms, too. So it's pioneer, your career change. And then if you do kind of want to, if you're looking at that career change aspect, you can absolutely go and grab my free, um, underpaid and overlooked confidence [00:32:00] guide, and you can get that from Latahamilton.com/worthit

[00:32:03]

[00:32:03] Mel: Brilliant. Well, thank you so much, Lata. And hopefully we'll speak to you again soon.